In the third episode of TIA Talks, host Jason Mizen brings together two figures deeply entrenched in the journey of The Insurance Apprentice (TIA) — Dr. Nolwandle Mgoqi, CEO of Aon South Africa and guest judge for #TIA2025, and Donovan Massyn, the first contestant to be evicted in this season. What unfolds is a revealing, thoughtful conversation about leadership, personal growth, and the complexities that come with playing a high-stakes game like TIA.
From the outset, Jason sets the tone: “Just because we’re in South Africa, and hopefully it’s not a trademark infringement, today’s episode is going to be a diary of a CEO,” he jokes. And with that, he welcomes Dr. Mgoqi and Donovan into the studio for a conversation that is anything but light.
The weight of elimination
Donovan, who was voted out by his peers following the Aon challenge, opens up candidly about his experience. Far from being bitter, he shares how the moment became a turning point. “I think what’s important to note is the reflection afterwards,” he says. “You made it to the top 10 under 35, and you’re picked for the future generational leaders within the industry.”
What stood out was Donovan’s ability to take criticism and turn it into growth. “Literally as I stepped into a presentation at work after TIA, I thought, ‘Don’t dance, don’t waltz’,” he laughs, referencing a memorable (and slightly embarrassing) moment on the show. “But it changed my entire perception of how you present and how you show up.”
For Donovan, TIA was less about one moment of failure and more about identifying blind spots and evolving. “Through that blind spot, I could identify this is how you elevate your career a bit more,” he said. “It becomes such a normal thing from now because of the position that I’m in. I work a lot with strategic partnerships — I need to present a lot.”
The calm power of a CEO
Dr. Mgoqi, a commanding presence with calm authority, reflects on her role both as a leader in the industry and a judge on TIA. Her demeanour is known to be intimidating, but she reveals a more reflective and grounded perspective.
“When I watched the episode with my kids, my 11-year-old said, ‘You could have smiled here.’ My 15-year-old added, ‘You could have been nicer.’” It’s that honest feedback from her children that reminds her, “The greatest in us is not defined by what we deem as success. It’s a reflection moment.”
She continues, “When you reflect, you own your part. There are very few people who are able to do that with grace and objectivity. That’s what Donovan did.” She highlights the strength in self-awareness, saying, “First, I go through the human part — ‘Why me?’ Then I ask, ‘If not me, who else?’ And finally, ‘What is the takeaway for me?’”
Mgoqi, despite her status, emphasizes that learning never stops. “The moment I feel like I’ve arrived, that’s when my learning will stop — and that scares me,” she admits.
The SME challenge: what went wrong
The core of Episode 2’s task — and Donovan’s downfall — was around crafting insurance solutions for SMEs. As a judge, Dr. Mgoqi had high expectations, especially considering the relevance of SMEs to South Africa’s economy.
“SMEs account for over 60% of our labour force and contribute significantly to GDP,” she explained. “They’re not just small — they’re the backbone of our economy. Yet they often disappear before reaching mid-large size because they lack the support and education they need.”
She challenged the contestants to think deeper about how the insurance industry could support SME sustainability through simplicity and accessibility. “They don’t have time to read 50-page documents. They want to know — am I covered or not? What’s my excess? Can I reduce my premium during off-peak seasons?”
Jason, reflecting on the challenge, admitted, “When I saw the brief, my first thought was: do a needs analysis, put together a client proposal, and show the world how to package insurance for SMEs.” But as Dr. Mgoqi gently reminded him, “You’ve simplified it too much. In practice, we were looking for more.”
Leadership and accountability
The conversation then turned to leadership — especially relevant since Donovan had been team leader during the task.
“Generally, we see the guys that are the leaders — they’ve got kind of a target on their back,” Jason said. Donovan agreed, acknowledging the pressure that came with the role. “It’s tough because you’re expected to direct, but also to listen.”
Dr. Mgoqi provided an anecdote from her own leadership experience: “A former CEO once told me, ‘I make each and every person feel they’ve got input. It doesn’t take away the fact that I have to make the decision.’”
She believes strongly in learning through others — regardless of title. “I can learn from the lady who sweeps our floors or the security guard who greets me. I never want to get to a point where I think I know everything. That’s when growth ends.”
A culture of humility and growth
If there’s a theme that underpins this episode, it’s humility — not as a performance, but as a necessity for growth.
“You often look at your CEO and think they have it all figured out,” Donovan said. “But they’re human too. They need to make people feel heard. And that’s vital.”
As Jason wrapped up the conversation, he reflected on the power of listening. “I never thought about listening being a tool to keep the power — and that’s so great. I’m definitely going to write that down.”
Final thoughts
This episode of TIA Talks reminded us that elimination isn’t failure — it’s feedback. Leadership isn’t about being the loudest — it’s about listening, reflecting, and applying. And even the most seasoned CEOs are still students of life.
Whether you’re a contestant, a professional, or someone navigating your own career challenges, Episode 3 is a masterclass in self-awareness and resilience.
As Dr. Mgoqi so aptly put it, “The moment I feel I’ve arrived — that’s when my learning will stop. And I never want to reach that point.”